We’ve recently made some changes to the popular page so that it reflects the number of people who’ve favorited the track in the past three days.
Shortly after we made the change, we were alerted by the Sweet Touch blog about an artist (or their team) potentially altering the charts. We then started reviewing account activity across the entire site and were able to confirm this and find other bands and blogs engaging in similar activity.
We found several artists (or their representatives) and blogs creating numerous accounts on the site and favoriting their tracks to get higher visibility in the charts. Because we’ve only recently switched to a chart based on the number of favorites, their efforts were not fruitful, however. We’ve locked the accounts we found doing this and suspended tracking blogs we’ve detected contributing.
We’ve also taken some extra measures to prevent this in the future. New users on the Hype Machine now have to enter a Captcha, to rule out automated signups, and we monitor the account creation process more closely to detect manual efforts to create fake accounts, too. As yet another precaution, when creating the Popular charts on the site, we only count the favorites by accounts older than a few days, so that a new wave of manipulative accounts cannot influence the page even if they get past our other checks. We are excited to share these enhancements with you.
Some of these techniques are used by sites like IMDB or Rotten Tomatoes so they’ve stood the test of time. If you have more feedback on how to make them better, feel free to write using our contact form. The integrity of what ends up on the Hype Machine is paramount, so we welcome more ideas and constructive criticism.
Finally, here is a list of artists (in alphabetical order) who (or their managers, promoters, interns, determined fans, there is no way to ultimately know) we believe have attempted to alter the charts on the Hype Machine. We thought we’d publish this list to let everyone make their own judgments about quality, integrity and marketing strategies:
[Update 07/07/2009: List of artists removed, see this post for details]
Anthony Volodkin
Taylor McKnight
Zoya Feldman
Scott Kidder
Arkadiy Kukarkin
and there was much rejoicing.
June 30, 2009 @ 8:25 am
I love that you’ve posted the list of offenders, and especially enjoy the sweet irony of one of them being “Kid Legit”.
June 30, 2009 @ 8:30 am
good riddance…
June 30, 2009 @ 8:34 am
Stoney Roads fell victim to Three Fingers foul play and this article proves our innocence even though we have been temporarily removed from hypem
June 30, 2009 @ 8:41 am
thanks hypem for blocking the badboy-techniques!
remembers me little on politics, when they vote for them self.
keep up the great work!
June 30, 2009 @ 8:42 am
i hope you are not revealing all of your techniques for detecting frauds, because that makes it much easier to get around them!
June 30, 2009 @ 9:04 am
Nice work!
June 30, 2009 @ 9:14 am
I saw the Knocks in the popular list and kinda liked them. sad if you have to manipulate the hype machine to get listeners.
June 30, 2009 @ 9:35 am
Bravo Hypem
June 30, 2009 @ 9:37 am
Good work Hypem…As a blogger and musician I appreciate you guys keeping it honest..
June 30, 2009 @ 10:06 am
I secretly knew no one could actually like the Weekend Warriors that much.
June 30, 2009 @ 10:21 am
Hello all.
I am one of the artists on this list. The Pragmatic
Not only does it pain me to see a “music-loving” site destroy the nimble credibility of any band these days, it’s presented without any facts. Maybe there is really no real way of finding out who is promoting it this way, but regardless, this list probably includes a lot of guilty people, and a lot of innocent people. I’m glad you “believe” that we did something wrong, but calling out bands is just lame. So lame that I have to resort to commenting here to retain any kind of integrity.
This is what we do to promote our songs:
Upload it to our blog/site
Send to other blogs
Post on facebook
Post on Twitter and ask for RT’s
Send out to Mailing list
Our publicist emails it to everybody again
Repeat this when we have a hypem link.
Everybody in the band also has an account, and yes we’re guilty of “hearting” our own songs, but we absolutely, positively did NOT create fake accounts.
Any professional site would have made the changes (which I applaud by the way), but wouldn’t have posted a defamatory list of possible cheaters.
Thanks Hype Machine!
June 30, 2009 @ 11:00 am
Andre,
Our records indicate that at least 43 accounts were created from a single computer system/network that then favorited only the following tracks:
43 times, The Pragmatic - You Blame Me
43 times, The Pragmatic - Academy
42 times, The Pragmatic - Deathmatch
41 times, JUSTICE - Phantom Part III (The Pragmatic Remix)
Given that this is a time-consuming activity that primarily benefits you, you can see how it appears likely that you or your team may have been involved.
Email me directly anthony at hypem.com or via contact form for more info.
June 30, 2009 @ 11:07 am
i think it’s time to kill off blogs that have zero integrity.
kill the link dumps, and kill the blogs that are obviously ran by a 15 year old kids with no taste in music much less coding/graphics skills.
keep it clean & thanks for the service.
June 30, 2009 @ 11:12 am
Anthony,
Is it possible that this computer network is a school network?
We promote heavily on our local campus.
June 30, 2009 @ 11:26 am
Hmmmm,…. what would get a band success in this modern, internet age: promoting themselves (or having others promote them) on social media and blog aggregators, or actually touring and turning on new fans personally?
Perhaps it’s causing a shit storm of offense-taking on the Hype blog, eh?
Do let me know which one works for you! xoxo
June 30, 2009 @ 11:34 am
We were unable to find any information that this was a school network. Usually, it is easy to tell.
Either way, I think you can agree that it’s unlikely that heavy campus promotion can compel 40+ people to make accounts around the same time and only favorite a very small set of tracks.
June 30, 2009 @ 11:36 am
Despite how pathetic this whole situation is, its pretty hysterical that the hypem is calling these guys out.
June 30, 2009 @ 11:42 am
actually, Anthony — i think what you said:
“it’s unlikely that heavy campus promotion can compel 40+ people to make accounts around the same time and only favorite a very small set of tracks.”
is completely likely. someone sends out a call to arms on a dorm mailing list (yes, those exist) to sign up for the hype machine/favorite X tracks. and so people sign up at once and favorite things. if it was during finals period, kids are looking for any way to procrastinate. i was in college once. i was a teenager once. and the college to which andre refers is very tight-knit and musically oriented.
andre’s too modest to say so, but he’s involved with the RAC — i.e., someone who’s very popular on the hype machine and on blogs. long before he had a band. through old-fashioned linking. so the fact that his band gained a bit of popularity also isn’t very surprising. he also has quite a bit of integrity, and seeing his band’s name smeared like this — guilty until proven innocent — bums me out.
June 30, 2009 @ 11:44 am
I’m sure a few of these heads cheated, and or manipulated the system. but hey your music still has to be good at the end of the day. I’ve seen countless older songs get put up and make it to the the top 10 it doesnt mean that much (not taking anything away from this site, cuz I personally love it.) I feel like if keyboard cat was on a blog it would have gotten it a million hits and been number 1 for 3 days straight, doesn’t mean that keyboard cat is about to get a record deal. With all that being said, if your song sucks and you cheat to get it to the top, it’s still a sucky song… the main remedy for this is too make good music.
June 30, 2009 @ 11:46 am
Annie - I too was just in school, and while you are right that procrastination + calls to arms + etc can be powerful, I don’t think that makes it any less manipulative.
All we are saying is that these people have tried to manipulate the charts. At the end of the day, this is just the Internet and an artist’s success comes from many other factors, but we thought it’s important for people to know who has attempted this. They too can decide if that’s ok or not, for themselves.
June 30, 2009 @ 11:53 am
way to call out the offenders! no better way to discourage further abuse (by artists or overly-well-meaning fans) than this.
June 30, 2009 @ 11:56 am
Anthony,
The thing is, we didn’t attempt this.
Somebody did, and now we’re taking the fall for it.
Or maybe we just happened to get a bunch of people to sign up at once. Not easy, but very doable.
I strongly applaud the measures put in place, because maybe now the charts will reflect quality.
However, saying that sending out links asking for people to favorite your songs is manipulative is ignoring the basic foundation of how your site works.
June 30, 2009 @ 12:14 pm
I largely agree with Andre. It seems unfair for the artist to inherit the entirety of the blame based on their associations with overzealous fans and promoters. I think this list reflects an incredibly lazy approach to fixing a problem that resulted from incredibly lazy programming. To only identify artists that have at some point had songs manipulated, casts doubt over the entire legitimacy of their work. The best approach would be to apply Anthony’s initial response to Andre: This is the artist, these are the number of fake accounts and these are songs that were manipulated. Yet, they only identify the artists who have/were associated with those who, at some point practiced, to some degree fraudulent account registration. A problem that could have easily been solved long ago by sending a confirmation email to new accounts.
June 30, 2009 @ 12:31 pm
Ok, this is gettin’ good.
Did someone seriously just call the guys behind the HM “incredibly lazy” programmers? Sorry, but “Incredibly Lazy” = coordinated marketing to get new accounts hearting a band’s tracks.
The next question is: Can we tell if any of these anti-comments are coming from the same computer network, too?
June 30, 2009 @ 12:42 pm
Mark,
I didn’t call them “lazy programmers”, I called this a “lazy approach to fixing a problem.” Back in March I created around 40 fake accounts to promote Emil & Friends (I am not in the band…I have only been promoting but the band takes the fall). Since March I have not done this, but Emil & Friends (not me) has ended up on this list. I explained this to Anthony and how it was unfair to place the entirety of the blame on the artists without even showing which songs were altered. However, he has been incredibly stubborn and has refused to amend this list even after I came forward as the responsible party. So either, he truly believes the artists are to blame based entirely upon their association, or he is lazy. I am coming forward as responsible for getting Emil & Friends on this list. Also, I should note that they have been in the top 10 since March without any manipulation.
June 30, 2009 @ 12:58 pm
@Ben
Anthony got burned!
You guys are all pretty hilarious talking about hypem like this.
Should just all move over to elbo.ws which aggregates a hell of a lot more blogs.
June 30, 2009 @ 1:31 pm
shitty,
I linked my song on my facebook profile and I’m on the list.
booo
June 30, 2009 @ 1:37 pm
Ben,
Your words: “…an incredibly lazy approach to fixing a problem that resulted from incredibly lazy programming.” And you’re saying you didn’t call them incredibly lazy? Not here to quibble, but sheesh. And you’re calling them out for not preventing a loophole that you yourself took advantage of? Kind of a dick move.
If you created 40 fake accounts to promote Emil & Friends, and they hired you to promote them, then they’re just as much to blame. Part of the deal. Falling on your sword is admirable and all (especially if they didn’t ask you to), but the buck doesn’t stop with you.
Anthony & co. may have pulled together and shared the list of artist names, but I’m sure most of us understand there are networks of friends and promo-peeps behind them. It doesn’t end neatly with the band members and their managers or SOs. So they needn’t freak out too badly. People are going to forget this, or never even notice… unless this comment section keeps growing and becoming more entertaining. Who’s up for the challenge?
June 30, 2009 @ 1:42 pm
No one knows who any of those bands/artists are! Ha!
June 30, 2009 @ 1:50 pm
Reading about this kind of makes me want to check out the bands or promoters that spoke up.
What is the old saying, there is no such thing as bad publicity?
June 30, 2009 @ 1:56 pm
Copyediting:
“We’ve recently FIXED the popular page so that it reflects the number of people who’ve favorited the track in the past three days.”
June 30, 2009 @ 2:14 pm
I agree. anyone on this list, if you make great music and people who don’t even know you personally think so also, you should be laughing like everyone else here. quality outlasts any promotional stunt. If anything, you have your name up here promoting you further. On the other hand, People who thought this type of promotion would make their music BETTER…not a good idea. great car, no gas.
hype machine, I applaud you for attempting to bring order to this strange era of music.
People, chill out.
June 30, 2009 @ 2:22 pm
rrubin,
I couldn’t agree with you anymore…
It’s just not fun to wake up and find a couple emails from people saying that the hype machine accused us publicly of cheating.
Especially, when we whole heartedly believe that good music prevails. Ultimately that’s what we’re trying to do.
and 99.9 of the population will never even see this, but for that 0.1 I want to set the record straight that we didn’t do anything manipulative.
June 30, 2009 @ 2:36 pm
NO WAY! MUSTARD PIMP IS JUST THAT GOOD! FREE THEM FROM THIS LIST! THEY ARE THE NEXT BLOODY BEETROOTS!
June 30, 2009 @ 3:26 pm
wow. while i believe some artists would do something like this, its hard to believe that some on the list would have anything to do with it.
i’d have to side with andre, and also a friend of mine who had just called me to tell me about this little drama that is going on who i will not name that is on the list. he pushes his tracks hard on sites like twitter, myspace, etc. there’s no way for artists to stop fans from doing things like this. I don’t think hype should have publicly outed everyone at this point.
i’m not going to lie, my blog has posted tracks from several of these artists in the past. we don’t condone cheating but we also don’t want our friends to get blamed for cheating when someone else obviously cheated for them without them knowing
June 30, 2009 @ 3:50 pm
While I think it’s great that you have fixed this problem, I think it’s unfair for you to have publicly outed these bands. Some of them may have been responsible for playing the system, but in many cases I think it was probably promoters or fans who were doing this. I know a couple bands on this list, and they aren’t malicious or dishonest. Don’t you think a simple, private warning letter would have stopped the problem? I don’t think asking your friends to listen to a track and heart it if they like it is unacceptable. More than anything, you are punishing theses people for being passionate and enthusiastic about their music.
June 30, 2009 @ 4:09 pm
Finally I understand why Weekend Warriors kept showing up in the popular tracks.
Oh, and Disco Ruido’s track that got so much attention was actually pretty good.
Are the offending blogs going to be named/booted from the blog list?
June 30, 2009 @ 4:13 pm
Can’t stop laughing at your naivete. Seriously you didn’t think people would try to game a popularity contest? Really. Ever consider a career in stand up comedy?
June 30, 2009 @ 4:47 pm
Wait wat. Burns, Death to the Throne, Emil & Friends, Hot Knives, John Roman, Kids at the Bar, Mustard Pimp, The Knocks, The Pragmatic, The Vanish and VIKING?! Baaaaaaaaaaw. I actually really like these bands, and the majority of them did I discover through Luis over at PMA and Faisal via his old site Ohh! Crapp… I got a hard time believing that Andre would cheat the system when he got so much love from PMA and all the other blogs around the net, he has well over 1000 followers on facebook (RAC/Andre Anjos) and 500 on twitter. It can’t be hard to get a lot of attention via all of these medias?!
But it doesn’t need to be the artist themselves, it can be the ones posting the songs that want to be number 1 on The Hype Machine….
June 30, 2009 @ 5:04 pm
haha this is funny…andre reminds me of the guys you see in court that get caught with a kilo of coke that they just happened to be conveniently “holding for a friend” the day they were caught
this list is riddled with no name artists (I use that term lightly) that just wanted more exposure. I don’t look down on them for doing what they did, but I do think the call out was very warranted.
June 30, 2009 @ 5:17 pm
Anthony just informed me that the accounts regarding The Pragmatic were indeed created by one IP.
Whoever it was they definitely didn’t help.
Arguing over the internet is pretty pointless, so I’m outta here.
June 30, 2009 @ 5:34 pm
To respond quickly:
Andre: We reviewed the accounts in question more closely and found that they have the same password and were all created in a matter of several hours several minutes from each other. We have no way of knowing whether it was you, people you work with or an overzealous fan. What we do know is that it’s unlikely for someone to “just” do that randomly. This is why we are sharing these anomalies in the data with our audience. They can decide if it’s “cheating” or not a big deal themselves. I’ve corrected a sentence in the post to make this clearer.
Ben: We don’t currently verify email accounts because of how crappy and annoying of a user experience it is. It slows people down, distracts and makes them wait unnecessarily. In the case with @hotmail.com emails, they may even never get the emails. We may still implement it at a later date, but the time has not yet come.
June 30, 2009 @ 5:40 pm
Andre, that too is true. Back to music!
June 30, 2009 @ 5:42 pm
You boring fucking losers, who gives a shit??
What’s worse than being on the list, is whinging and moaning about being on it. I wouldn’t have remembered any of the bands on the list, but thanks to you I will now remember one. And I’ll be sure not to buy into it. Simply because I hate whingers.
Try writing good music instead of wasting time masturbating over the internet.
June 30, 2009 @ 7:16 pm
This list really has no validity. What if the artists ‘#1 fan’ had been creating accounts and favoriting the tracks? It is very unprofessional and ride to ridicule these artists by putting them on a list labeled CHEATERS. Bad call hype machine- should have just posted a blog saying you’ll be banned if you ‘cheat.’
June 30, 2009 @ 7:28 pm
good. i won’t listen to any of those bands ever. especially sonic truth.
June 30, 2009 @ 8:31 pm
HAHAHA MEECH , guy is such a joke, big ego little talent . trying to be famous but needs to fuck off
June 30, 2009 @ 8:44 pm
all these bands suck. good riddance. what kind of loser names their band ‘the pragmatic’ in the year 2009. you suck. off yourself and the world will be better off.
June 30, 2009 @ 8:58 pm
Kick off pretty much amazing.
June 30, 2009 @ 11:53 pm
hell to the yeAH!!!!!!!!!!!
July 1, 2009 @ 1:04 am
yea i think hype machine needs to “clean house” and kick off some of these blogs that just post anything and everything. not just that, but make it much tougher to actually get indexed (self hosted only? in existence >1 year? etc). i know it may seem contradictory towards the initial “purpose” of the site, but things have changed ALOT since then, in a way that i’m sure the creators of hype machine didn’t expect.
that being said though anthony and crew run one of the most amazing and forward thinking sites on the net, and i’m sure they will fix this.
July 1, 2009 @ 1:16 am
The funny thing is I actually listened to some of the “offenders” on your list out of curiosity for the first time. I actually like quite a few of these “newly discovered” bands now.
July 1, 2009 @ 1:44 am
All publicity is good publicity, ultimately
July 1, 2009 @ 2:01 am
i mean, in this day and age where exposure is everything (you certainly can’t sell music anymore), does this really surprise anyone?
this is probably far from the first time this has happened, and it’s probably been done by more popular artists (or those close to them) well before this, this is just recently and those that got “caught” lately…
do you really think big name artists don’t vote for themselves, and ask their friends and fans to vote for them?
but at the end of the day, who cares?
it could be someone’s girlfriend trying to “help”, friends bored at work trying to “help”, could be the blog itself trying to get more attention, or anyone, not necessarily the artist. so this is kinda unfair to them.
and this certainly doesn’t mean that any of these artists’ music is automatically bad. some of those artists are actually pretty good. if you can seriously decide to never listen to any of these artists again based on this, which in no way proves that the artists themselves did this, then you’re a bit of a weirdo.
July 1, 2009 @ 3:48 am
“Simply because I hate whingers.”
Kip W(h)inger is going to be really sad when he hears about this.
July 1, 2009 @ 8:48 am
hey anthony
as this problem will be getting rather bigger with more and more users. If u haven’t done so already, maybe look at how slashdot manages their news for inspiration, they have been doing it a long time, are very adept programmers and maybe even statisticians (is that a word?) and are like you in a quest for quality ensured by their users.
link to the proper FAQ page(gets interesting at: “It seems like the quality of comment posts is declining. Are you doing anything about it?”):
http://slashdot.org/faq/com-mod.shtml#cm600
while i am at it, ever thought about optional genre/tag- or even registering time (old school vs new school
specific “popular” lists?
cheers!
July 1, 2009 @ 10:08 am
Hype machine preaching about integrity and quality? This site is nothing more than a piracy organizer that rips off the hard work done by bloggers to sell adspace.
Get over yourselves.
July 1, 2009 @ 10:59 am
Here’s another one for ya: http://hypem.com/jadev
July 1, 2009 @ 5:11 pm
So, WHY does hype m think it’s fair to give these bands/artists a bad name based on their shitty system?
it REALLY isn’t fair.
HYPE M is not the all mighty ruler and mediator of all music, and does not have the final say in ANYTHING.
but. . . WHATEVER
July 1, 2009 @ 7:35 pm
So you can’t HYPE your band on HYPE machine? But where else can I go to show off my stolen music? How full of yourselves are you!?!
BTW, The Constellations and The Pragmatic are bands I found on HM and are totally worth your time, please go check them out and do not allow this stupidity to threaten what you choose to listen to.
Rage against The Machine!
July 1, 2009 @ 10:07 pm
Anthony and The Hype Machine are 100% honest and credible. 43 accounts on one computer that votes for a shitty bands songs - if you ask me, that’s Pretty Much Amazing. Are all of the Pragmatic supporters on this list coming from a single IP? Rock on Hype, don’t pay attention to these tools.
July 2, 2009 @ 2:43 am
@asherdiamonds Hey ashdaddy
July 2, 2009 @ 4:14 am
As someone who has worked and enabled artists online for as long
as it has been possible - I love this transparency. Bravo Anthony.
As an 9 year old once replied to an artist posting on her site….
“if your so cool why are you over on my bbs telling me your so cool”
Epic fail all of you - Shame shame shame.
Put the bots and photoshop down. Focus on your music.
The nicer your website the worse the band.
Authenticity FTW.
July 2, 2009 @ 5:34 am
well, well, well i see my name’s on the list.so guess i should write a response. it seems i’m a couple days late and nobody cares anymore, but better late than never.
out of all these artists, i’ve been posted the most and have had the most “success” on the popular charts, i’m assuming that i’m obligated to defend myself AND MOST IMPORTANTLY the other people on this list
before i get started, i would like to say i’m disappointed that there isn’t more shit talking and name calling. i was hoping for something more entertaining. shame on all of you.
so in a vain attempt to defend myself, i would like to throw some stats at you.
since december 2008, i been posted by various blogs 132 times, of those 132 times i think i’ve made it the top 50 of the most popular songs like 30 or 40 times or something like that. since then i’ve been “hearted” 5356 times, at least 1000 of those since hype machine started tracking favorites instead of listens. even if i had time, i doubt it would be possible to heart myself 1000 times and make any kind of significant manipulation of the charts.
in the post, anthony states that shortly after the change he was notified of cheating. instead of fixing the problem right away, he waits for a month. obviously having something juicy to blog about is more important then the integrity of hype machine as a whole.
at first i was worried i was on this list, but seeing BURNS, KIDS AT THE BAR, MUSTARD PIMP, VIKING on this list hasn’t changed me being a huge fan of each of them. i was also worried that blogs might not post my shit anymore, then i realize i only found out about this because FIND VOLTORB CATCH VOLTORB posted my latest remix and mentioned this post.
now don’t get me wrong, i neither disagree or agree with hype machines actions, i just think some points need to be made. i love it when douchbags get called out even if i’m one of them. hype machine is great and will probably one day replace everything as the only source for dope music. i do however, thinks it’s a bit ungrateful to put these artists on blast considering some of them make the good music that makes this website relevant.
and the WEEKEND WARRIORS FUCKING SUCK.
July 2, 2009 @ 6:01 am
i have absolutely no doubt that there are MANY other offenders. I witness too many bands / artists achieve these meteoric and disproportionate rises totally out of the blue, which from my own perspective as a trusted online music promoter, can be very disheartening.
Reading some of the more disparaging comments, whilst Hype M may not be the first and foremost authority per se, many labels are now using the chart to source hot remixers and producers, whilst the agent/manager duo uses it an additional factor to help sell their acts to the wider media i.e. obtaining playlist and to bump up DJ / agent fees.
Blogs take a lot of flack from the industry as detrimental to the market but they are now just becoming respected as a viable and trusted source and vechile for music promotions a (no more legal threats?).
The Hype M chart is recognised as good barometer within industry circles and thus Hype M now have a responsibility to be good ambassadors of the blog world, so i think its paramount that the integrity of the chart is maintained..
or else i guess there’s always We Are hunted
July 2, 2009 @ 6:11 am
Here’s a disney fan for ya: http://hypem.com/abcdefg
July 2, 2009 @ 6:23 am
death to the throne: The problem was fixed when we discovered it as described above. Writing this up took longer.
I agree with you about the limited impact of all of the efforts we are discussing here. The significance isn’t in the impact but in the effort. It may also be true that many on the list are great musicians/producers/etc, that too isn’t the focus here.
It is also worth noting that you just posted this comment from what appears to be a Phoenix-based cable ISP - the several IP addresses which were responsible for over a hundred accounts that have favorited your content were also from this network. It may just be a coincidence or…
July 2, 2009 @ 6:30 am
Everyone knows that good music always rises to the top… even quicker now with decent blogs and sites like this… Why do people try and cheat that!!!
July 2, 2009 @ 8:01 am
Phil Cooper:
Because their music sucks, that’s why. It’s not going to rise to the top otherwise.
July 2, 2009 @ 9:27 am
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July 2, 2009 @ 9:27 am
I can imagine a day in the future when somebody is browsing music online, and The Pragmatic comes up, and the guy browsing goes, “The Pragmatic? Aren’t they the people who were mentioned on that Hype Machine blog once for voting for their own music 40 times? What an awful band. SKIP!”
Or, maybe it doesn’t matter at all and having this extended conversation is making the situation worse.
July 2, 2009 @ 10:54 am
ok folks…
no one knows me.. no one listens to me.. so i created a load of accounts to look like i was known, so you might be more inclined to listen to me. and then you caught me! i put my hands up - i am a cunt! xxx
sorry,
flapsandwich
x
July 2, 2009 @ 2:02 pm
At first I was intimidated by the fact that Hypem are forced once again to restrain, restrict and monitor. I’m some sort of a liberal nu-hippie so I just want as much freedom and “free flow” as possible, so I thought: “hey, let the love spread, don’t tie it up!”. But then I suddenly realized the reason to why The Vanish had gone so surprisingly popular on their very first bloground. I love The Vanish and they’re highly tipped by many (including me) to be breakthrough of the year in the blogosphere, but I’m aware that it takes a little longer than THAT to establish a name. So I thought that was a good example of Hypem can be abused and actually SHOULD be monitored. So good show, with both the list and the measures taken.
You should also seriously consider checking out We Are Happe Plants - Apollo. The track had been posted several times by different blogs and not hearted that much before Binary posted it on May 26th. I think 1000 hearts is way too much for me to believe despite that:
1. Binary is a very popular and trusted blog with a very loyal fancore (including me)
2. WPAHP have been blogged quite a few times but not even in their wildest dreams been close to 1000+ hearts. Still their not THAT an established name.
Check it out and judge yourselves:
http://hypem.com/search/We%20Are%20Happy%20Plants/1/
http://hypem.com/track/829910/We+Plants+Are+Happy+Plants+-+Apollo
Cheerios!
/ The Lemur
July 2, 2009 @ 2:25 pm
Lemur, thanks for that. We looked into that track/band at the time it was getting hot and were unable to find the types of irregularities we found with the list above.
If you find anything suspicious though, let us know. This looks good as far as we can tell.
July 2, 2009 @ 2:34 pm
“Everyone knows that good music always rises to the top… even quicker now with decent blogs and sites like this… Why do people try and cheat that!!!” - Phil Cooper
well, some people don’t look past the first page of popular (there wasn’t more than one page until recently, right?)… so when a great new song by a new artist comes out and can’t get any recognition because the charts are clogged up by the same song by some popular artist, and it’s on the charts several times, or when blogs post an old, played out justice track (or some other artist that’s been on there soooo much) because it’s a guaranteed chart topper, you shouldn’t be surprised to see a few cheating the system.
it’s all “hype” indeed… people are more likely to check out a new artist if they’re getting a lot of hype, so some may get clever on getting themselves more hype. that doesn’t automatically mean that their music sucks, nor that they don’t deserve the hype (sometimes that little boost gets the ball rolling for them). you could have the best song evar on hypemachine and if you’re a no-name you can easily stay under the radar and not get the hype you deserve (most poeple don’t listen to everything on hypemachine, they just check out popular artist they already know)… PLENTY of new artists haven’t got the hype they deserve on hypemachine, whilst the same ol’ same ol’ cock blocks it…
July 2, 2009 @ 2:57 pm
Just checked out the pragmatic, not only are you cheaters, but you are a insanely uncreative carbon copy of something in the vein of The postal Service. I’m sorry, but I just can’t respect anyone who would have the nerve to do something like that. Yeah at the end of the day it’s not like cheating to get to the top of the billboard top 100, it’s about artistic integrity and ethics.
July 2, 2009 @ 3:47 pm
Re- Master Shortie.
Can someone from Hype Machine please get in touch urgently. Master Shortie has been blacklisted and no one has a clue what for. Reading the other posts it seems the same has happened to other bands.
While we appreciate people do fake profiles etc, we work with the management and have no idea where this has come from.
Again - please let us know urgently so we can check it out.
July 2, 2009 @ 5:12 pm
For the record, noone has been blacklisted. If any of the bands above get favorites on the Hype Machine, they will be in the charts.
July 2, 2009 @ 5:18 pm
@Anthony,
“It is also worth noting that you just posted this comment from what appears to be a Phoenix-based cable ISP - the several IP addresses which were responsible for over a hundred accounts that have favorited your content were also from this network.”
Anthony, If it’s worth noting that in favor against that Death To The Throne, maybe you can check the I.P. on my comment and compare that against the alleged “inconsistencies” on our website. =)
July 2, 2009 @ 5:33 pm
I didn’t read this as direct blame on the bands at all. I took it as more of a heads-up that all these “favorites” might not reflect the Hypem community at large so much as a devoted few that may or may not be connected with the band. A “judge for yourselves”.
July 2, 2009 @ 6:42 pm
NOT MUSTARD PIMP!
July 2, 2009 @ 9:22 pm
@anthony
ha ha :). oh i never said i didn’t cheat. the point i was trying to make was a large majority of the love i got was not fake. i lead the horse to water but i didn’t make it drink. i did what i had to do to get noticed in a very remix saturated market and i don’t regret it. i just got the money for my first official remix and starting work on my second and my latest outing on the charts cropped up 477 hearts, none of them from me. i hope this little skirmish doesn’t make you think less of me even though it appears from your listening history your not very impressed with my music
god. technology is creepy
July 3, 2009 @ 12:45 am
@anthony
and also my apologies if i accused you of any meddling. with some of the negative responses in this post it’s easy to forget this was made with unbiased objectivity (at least i hope so anyway)
July 3, 2009 @ 1:29 am
ha ha, well done for calling them out
in any case i’m on the machine everyday and I have never listened to any of these artists so it doesn’t look like it has worked that well.
July 3, 2009 @ 1:55 am
I think what you did was allright. maybe you should make it an official policy to always/automatically post artist supported by cheating techniques.
this is the hypemachine, it is supposed to let people know what the hypes are at the moment. this is exactly what becomes possible by listing cheaters (you should probably give the number of obvious fake accounts or sth. like that, so the dimensions can be judged). if I see a band on the list I might conclude that the hype is not real, yet I can still listen to the music of course and it shouldn’t prevent me from liking it, that would be the same as not liking unpopular music which is plain stupid (as is the opposite). popularity should never influence ones judgement of music, but popularity is interesting in itself, which is why I come here at least.
Furthermore the list may not only prevent the artists and producers themselves, but also hyperactive fans from cheating. Bands and fans want to be part of “real” hypes, not those known to be fake.
ultimately your decision comes down to saying “we are primarily a service for our users and not a PR method for musicians”. that is the right attitude, as without users you can’t be of service to musicians anyway.
To me the interest in your page rises and falls with the degree that it represents the “real-time” interests of musically informed people. It is a monumental task to keep this up over time, but I am happy to see you trying, otherwise you will go down the MTV road one day. u know that already…shit, this really is your major challenge, is it?
don’t give up! there must be a solution.
July 3, 2009 @ 8:22 am
here is the reply i got from a music industry friend, when i messaged him to say “i am a hoax!!!”
“yeh, u want people to hear your music….. so u did whatever it takes to make em listen…….
cos u haven’t got the money that lady fuckin ga ga has got!!!!
NME ramming shite down the throats of teenagers across the uk so they can sell out tours and then discard the band is a far greater crime.
these are the lengths that u have to go to to try to get your music heard…no crime in promotion
u are a passionate hard working musician looking for a break…..
just like a million others
fudging reality is everywhere……
Pendulum doing a dj set for 10 k in the uk whilst simultaneously playing live in USA!!!!!!!
so that somebody can print PENDULUM on a poster
and sell loadsa tix to poor bastards who wouldn’t know em if they fell over em
crystal castles all over nme for 6 consecutive weeks leading up to the nme tour that wasn’t selling…..
mate u gotta do it to stand a chance
that’s the story
if u don’t get out there and fight dirty then your chances are seriously diminished
plus……
u ain’t selling anything
so why u doing it
so that people here your music….
not like pendulum, or nme
they are in it to rape your fucking wallet
your music is FREE
all you want is for people to hear it
1 last thing…..
how many likes do u need to get in the chart?
30? 50? 100?
fuck me bet billboard are shitting themselves
bovvered?”
personally, i would like to thank Hypem for adding me to this list as i have never had so much promotion!
and i’m damn good. better than Diplo anyway.
lol
THANK YOU!
July 3, 2009 @ 11:29 am
Listened to everyone on the list
607 - Professional quality r&b/hip-hop with a bad rapper and hot(as in sexy, not vocally) singer
Alexander Technique - If you like the hype machine then you’ll probably love this guy cause he is that monotonous blog house that everyone here loves and the hype machine cultivates
audiofun- same as above
big dope p - more crunk than above but no sampling skill
burns - really good at filtering and adding bass and drums to other people’s music. at least he’s tasteful
Caroline Reese - folk indie. clearly didn’t have it done at a professional studio so everyone here should like that. good female singer
Decimals - visually, best myspace page so far though i was expecting more indie folk rock. There 1 song on Hype Machine is good but they aren’t much for lyrics. Also they seemed to have cheated once back in February before favorites determined the charts…they made this list? seriously?
Destructo - oh man…its just Super Freak with a low-pass filter. Also they have 1 song posted on Hype. I don’t even know why this made the list. It seems rather petty.
Disco Ruido - 1 song on hype. Its intriguing.
Emil & Friends - Holy crap. Have Sleepyhead and New in Town remix that are better than the originals (not saying that much tho). probably make best music of people on this list but their myspace page is whack.
Flapsandwich - the crappy blog house remixes that make The Hype Machine what it is. They play around with synths but they can’t control them.
Fragglerock - They had 1 song on hypem. no reason to post them. monotonous
Foulhouse - another band that should not make this list by virtue of the fact they have only 1 post. Also its a pretty lame remix of Off With Head. They just add drums and eventually a 2 note synth.
Gareth Pearson - acoustic guitar cover of Time To Pretend. thats all there is to say
Girl Problems - DJ Funk rip off. samples filthy rap and puts crappy electro beats behind it. Also, doesn’t care about fidelity and uses crappy acapellas.
Hot Knives - one of the only bands with more than 1 page of hypem posts. Don’t like the lead singer at all. but they must be doing something right with all the posts.
John Roman - Mashup/DJ/Remix house guy. thats all
Kid Legit - Don’t bother. acapellas aren’t in same tempo as beats.
Kids at the Bar - Software Justice.
La Zebra - They need to stop using garage band presets.
Master Shortie - Not bad. British rap/indie rock. Vocals are super annoying tho.
Meech - 90s club sound. Then meech adds one of the unwieldly synths
Messkid - got board after the first 30 second of bass drum and stopped listening.
Ok I gotta stop doing this. maybe i’ll add my input on the rest in a bit.
July 3, 2009 @ 11:50 am
I just got this page forwarded to us. I’m one of the DJ’s from fragglerock. The reason our results are skewed is that all hearts were cast from the same laptop, on the same network, in a nightclub that my partner owns and we both spin at frequently. Fans, friends & patrons that came into the club while that track was up were urged to vote for our music. Since then, that specific track has been featured on several mixtapes and blogs around the world.
I’m happy that hypemachine is cracking down on fraudulent marketing tactics, but upset that we were cast into this group. I wanted to make this post to explain some weaknesses in the current system, although it is much more effective than the previous one. In addition to that, I wanted to clarify what had happened in our particular case.
Please feel free to post any comments regarding this post.
July 4, 2009 @ 2:12 pm
Transcription of e-mail written to anthony regarding this post, for anyone who cares to read it:
“Upon searching for fragglerock, I only see our one track but posted twice by two separate blogs. Obviously, having one track with 350 hearts and one of nothing is indicative of foul play. I recognize several of the names on that list from mainly the Toronto area. I would like to point out that all of these artists I recognized, including ourselves have been heavily booked in the Toronto and surrounding areas. I encourage you to check out the myspaces and tell me if you see something in common with certain promoters and certain nightclubs. I believe this was a foul tactic used by promoters to make a few extra bucks in cover or have something different to put on the facebook flyers. I would post my exact thoughts, but don’t feel it is my place to call these people out. If I were wrong I would be discrediting their name and this post would being entirely hypocritical. Your blog aggregator is considered one of the best on the internet, and please remember that with great power comes great responsibility. There are few ways to prove which artists directly manipulated their results and placing everyone in the same category seems unfair. Perhaps a reasonable solution would be to simply remove these tracks from your database and should they be promoted & re-posted under the newer more secure system then so be it.
I wanted to write this e-mail/make my post to officially state fragglerock’s stance on the matter. “
July 4, 2009 @ 2:32 pm
hilarious! so im the only artist who is admitting that they faked some votes?
this is going on my CV,
flapsandwich : the worlds only self promoting blagger…
btw. flapsandwich re-reubs have had more downloads than ever this week, nice 1.
x
July 4, 2009 @ 2:40 pm
While the traces that indicated multiple accounts created by a single IP certainly are an issue. I really do think that the “unlikeliness” of people @ universities creating accounts is more likely than you think. As a university student, a blogger, and a friend to some of the artists mentioned.
Maybe Hypem should look at changing its list of popular blogs to reflect popularity based on traffic rather than Delicious and technorati scores? there are tons of unfair ways in which this aggregator ranks things and while hypemachine is a great promotional tool, it isnt really the billboard charts.
Kudos on the good work you put in to slow this kind of abuse of the system.
July 4, 2009 @ 4:11 pm
though I applaud this kind of thing where site is trying to keep its chart system fair for artists.
God knows MySpace needs to actually do this*lol*.
however publishing a bands name in a list as a possible offender’s and I am quoting from your own words “possible offender” is really not a wise move , your skating really close to defamation of character , whether it is the Internet or not, you do need permission from said artist to be publishing their names in such a list with these type of allegations.
especially due to the fact that the only proof you are running on is IP address , similar passwords and e-mail.
The problem with a system like this is the simple fact that if an artist is running a multinetwork in their house (several computers). You are still going to be faced with the same issue, so what it really boils down to is site design.
I do understand the fact that you want to come across as forthright with your terms of service, however political tact and abiding by the rights of artists. You do need to keep that list off a public display.
as I said earlier defamation of character is a very plausible means of action even on the Internet and a site like this is not above the law by any means.
do not get me wrong though, as I think you should enforce a fair and just system for artists as sites like yours do help their overall economic needs.
July 4, 2009 @ 5:59 pm
So it’s not just MPs who cheat, I despair. Whatever happened to honesty and integrity? Good on the Hype machine for rooting it out.
The Devil
aka Paul
July 5, 2009 @ 1:52 pm
Wait, it’s a surprise to hear that marketers are trying to manipulate the perception of music popularity? They’ve been doing this since vinyl.
July 5, 2009 @ 9:38 pm
well, after reading all of these comments, i’ve realized that there is absolutely no point in making music or living, so i’ve decided to end it all. maybe i’ll get hearted more now. fuck all of you.
July 6, 2009 @ 3:30 am
Hype:
1. Excessive publicity and the ensuing commotion: the hype surrounding the murder trial.
2. Exaggerated or extravagant claims made especially in advertising or promotional material: “It is pure hype, a gigantic PR job” (Saturday Review).
3. An advertising or promotional ploy: “Some restaurant owners in town are cooking up a $75,000 hype to promote New York as ‘Restaurant City, U.S.A.’” (New York).
4. Something deliberately misleading; a deception: “[He] says that there isn’t any energy crisis at all, that it’s all a hype, to maintain outrageous profits for the oil companies” (Joel Oppenheimer).
tr.v. hyped, hyp·ing, hypes
To publicize or promote, especially by extravagant, inflated, or misleading claims: hyped the new book by sending its author on a promotional tour.
- American standard dictionary
Maybe a name change is in order if your not going to allow people to hype themselves according to the very definition of the word hype? Justttt sayin
…..that said…. the most popular pages have always been useless so this will deffinately be a good change
July 6, 2009 @ 12:02 pm
get ready for a nice lawsuit HYPE MACHINE!! You have NO Proof that these artists actually did anything themselves!!
you asked for it & i hope your ready!!
July 6, 2009 @ 3:27 pm
I like my Hype Machine and it’s helped me discover so many great artists. And yes, that does include We Plants Are Happy Plants…it’s just a song everyone loves. And the fact that Death to the Throne cheated ist just astonishing. Really talented guy actually! Quit cheating, we love you anyway.
July 6, 2009 @ 8:40 pm
I think the extra measures are fine because voting many times from the same computers(IP) and same password is completly suspect …
but for that reason is not just the band damaged, is the blog.
In my case I post a song a some guy from the band made 21 vote for them song, for this reason my blog is no longer tracked…
I thing you measures are right but are gonna be some way to be able the track in the blog?
bye and how say before we love you anyway hypem.
(sorry my english I’m not a native speaker bye)
July 6, 2009 @ 10:07 pm
Hype Machine can do whatever the fuck they want. It’s their website. You know how many people used to hate pitchfork media or buddyhead for doing the same thing? Let’s just worry about the music. The good stuff will eventually rise to the surface.
July 9, 2009 @ 6:10 pm
Can someone tell me why Pretty Much Amazing (PMA) was removed from indexing? They seemed to be one of the most popular blogs on Hype Machine and I only just noticed yesterday that they were gone. Looking at PMA shows nothing (although Luis does not link to Hype Machine, which is a sign of some kind of falling out — with all the other links he has, the absence of Hypem is very stark). Did Pretty Much Amazing have anything to do with these false promoted bands/remixes? I see they posted The Pragmatic, but so did other blogs. Likewise Andre Anjos. What’s the story? There’s nothing on Elbo.ws music forums either mentioning this. So odd…anyone?
September 9, 2009 @ 9:13 am